Josh Drescher on PoR - TOP 50 GUILD BETA TIDBITS
July 2, 2008 – 12:09 pmJosh Drescher was recently interviewed by Orlock and Wrenn on Warhammer Geek’s Podcast of Reckoning episode #4! If you haven’t tuned in yet, you absolutely MUST because the amount of sweet info he delivered is siiiiiick!
I bolded my personal top 10 favorites!
The second part of this podcast’s 1-2 punch of aweseomeness is Beibhinn’s community interview. Her smooth-as-Guinness Irish accent will have the gents stampeding over to the VN boards before they even know what sort of mind-scorcery overtook them!
Here’s a breakdown of what Josh had to offer us ravenous fans:
- Guild beta will continue the tradition of focus tests
- It will help beta because off the enhanced cooperation that will be present compared to the previous individual beta phases
- It will be critical to high end RvR testing (keeps, city siege, etc.)
- They are accepting guilds of all stripes and sizes
- Looking for established guilds, power and non-power guilds
- They want guilds that are definitively enthusiastic and excited to test
- Beta is not a free trial or head start, it is an active development tool that serves an extremely important role pre-release
- EA Mythic takes beta very seriously and its testers are an integral part of the team
- WAR beta testers are the top tier, most enthusiastic, most interested, most organized players that are dedicated to the MMO genre
- WAR beta testers are not indicative of the wider audience they expect will play their game at launch
- They assume the kinds of people that were interested enough to get organized and go through the steps of applying for guild beta will be these kinds of testers
- There will be a balance that prevents larger guilds from outlevelling smaller guilds based solely on size
- They embrace the idea that the guild system will not be one thing for all players
- They want to give players the tools that allow it to be your guild, your way
- Because WAR will have so much to offer in PvE and PvP, guilds of all flavours will really be able to find the experiences they’re looking for
- A very small guild (6-12 players) will be able to stick together in everything in the game because the content scales to such a small size (group, scenario, etc.)
- On the flip side, very large guilds (300) won’t be able to bring everyone along to do every task in the game
- However, an example of where you could would be keeps siege/defense because a group of players at that size would be very advantageous
- There will be ways to manage larger guilds into smaller sub groups (kind of like 10-man raiding groups in WoW I guess?)
- The average expected size at launch is about 50 members, where they feel the guild system won’t become difficult to manage - but they do have tools in place for the larger guilds as well
- Josh personally thinks the ideal guild size is 30-50 players
- Guilds that have certain playtime windows (e.g., 6-10pm) will be at a disadvantage because they may not be around to defend their keeps but there are systems in place (e.g., significant NPC defense) that won’t make taking “undefended” keeps a cakewalk
- However, guilds with more presence will always have an advantage
- Players familiar with DAOC will find correlation between the way guilds should conduct themselves in WAR (the DAOC system was a paradigm shift)
- The Camelot Herald (DAOC) realm status updates were created because people who were out of the game were interested to find out how things were faring in game - we can expect to see this for WAR
- Taking your time to explore and participate in a wider variety of experiences throughout the chapters and tiers will give you a more expansive toolbox (greater utility, crafting, renown, gear, knowledge, etc.) to work with compared to single-minded powerlevellers
- If your sole goal is RvR (completely ignore PvE) - You’ll have a lot of renown and renown-specific rewards but you may not be as well-suited for PvE at the end-game (city siege) because you lack (for example) PvE-focused tactics that primarily come from ToK unlocks.
- This doesn’t mean the character with more tools will always win in an RvR duel, but he’ll have more options
- It’s not all about killing Hickman in RvR… it’s mainly about killing Hickman! Josh will have to roll Destruction because Hickman is 100% committed to the Witch Hunter.
- Josh loves the Black Orc because one of his abilities, in defense of his protected counterpart, is to whack him in the face, knocking him 20 feet back out of harms way (or into it)!
- When developing their wishlist for guild tools, they asked some hardcore, internal EA Mythic guild leaders which tools and features they felt were missing in the industry
- One tool: Automatic guild news feed aggregator (members joining, leaving, keeps captured, lost, etc.) - This is a quick way to catch up on what’s been happening in your guild when you log in
- Another tool: Calendar - This will internally help to plan and communicate major upcoming events - and you can set auto-reminders for all members
- Some features will be present right away, core tools will be achieved earlier on in Guild Level, and other cool features must be earned at the higher levels
- Message for people who don’t want to be tied down to a guild (Josh is one of these kinds of players): They want to make the transition from anti-social to social play as painless as possible. PQs are intended to trick people like Josh into interacting with other people. Once they eliminate the barriers to social interaction, you’re left with only the positives. Compare it to a home team sporting event in a stadium - even if you don’t know the people around you, you’re all sharing the same goals and interests. It worked for Josh… it can work for you!
- None of the guilds in beta know this, but the devs have joined quite a number of them anonymously!
- This is a great way to get true and honest feedback - lots of beta feedback have been blunt criticisms which is good for EA Mythic to hear
- Without fail, everything significant that beta testers have brought up, has actually needed changing and made the game better
- At this point, Josh is picking destruction because they stand out, are distinct, evocative, flavourful, unique, and interesting and he thinks many more people will be attracted to it as opposed MMOs that are traditionally made up entirely of knights in shining armour
- Jeff HIckman actually went back in time to the 80’s and posed for the Witch Hunter TT model - take that Chrono Chaos!
- For every single class in the game, they have a unique and awesome standout feature or mechanic that makes you really have to think hard about what you want to play - you’re never playing the same thing twice by making an alt
- “When people first see a lion go out, grab an enemy by the throat and drag him back to be stabbed in the head… people will like the White Lion.”
- Is it feasilbe to have a race-restricted guild? Absolutely.
- Will there be drawbacks?
- People need to step back from the idea that there is only one way to go out an play a game. If you look at a game basically as a spreadsheet full of numbers and ask what combination of numbers will generate the best result, you have basically stripped all of the joy and affection out of a game. You’ve now said “There is only one way to play the game.”
- There’s something to be said for playing the game in different ways that mean different things to different people. Like RP-servers.
- A dwarven guild isn’t necessarily going to be the most numerically efficient way of churning through the game content, leaving a rapidly expanding wake of devestation behind you, but running around with a bunch of your drunk dwarven friends, having fun - that’s value you can’t get from min-maxing.
- Josh’s wedding will be May of next year - the date was in place to make sure the game was ready to go, out the door, and problem free - talk about dedication!
- The Hickman will be at the wedding to “bounce suckas” who decide to rudely crash it! He can actually break boards with his kicks. Lookout Chuck Norris!
- MAKE SURE YOU LISTEN FOR YOURSELF!
* Top 50 Tidbit lists are not a trademark of the Waaagh! Blog but I must thank Syp’s Baltimore Gamesday Top 50 Tidbits for inspiring this format!
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17 Responses to “Josh Drescher on PoR - TOP 50 GUILD BETA TIDBITS”
They certainly WILL be trademarked soon…
Great list, buddy!
By Syp on Jul 2, 2008
“The second part of this podcast’s 1-2 punch of aweseomeness is Beibhinn’s community interview. Her smooth-as-Guinness Irish accent will have the gents stampeding over to the VN boards before they even know what sort of mind-scorcery overtook them!”
You sir, have a way with words!
By Wrenn on Jul 2, 2008
That’s fantastic info there… really making me want to see the White Lion in action also.
I just want to know one thing… who’s in a guild that’s got some extra spots and wants JoBildo to tag along and make them all look good in comparison to him?
By Bildo on Jul 2, 2008
Psst, Bildo… Two words. Chrono Chaos.
(Sorry for pimping the pretend time-travelling guild on your blog Snaf, but it’s just so hard not to.)
By Johnny Walker Black on Jul 2, 2008
You’re lucky Syp and I are bedfellows… er, pals! BURLY, MANLY, PALS!
Thanks Wrenn! That was the best dev interview I have ever heard. Josh was extremely forthcoming and you guys did an excellent job prompting him with interesting discussion topics.
By Snafzg on Jul 2, 2008
I perfer the term “snugglebunnies” myself.
By Syp on Jul 2, 2008
Great stuff! I have a long train journey to make tomorrow and I’ve been saving the podcast for that, really looking forwards to it now.
“None of the guilds in beta know this, but the devs have joined quite a number of them anonymously!”
They know now
By Spinks on Jul 2, 2008
“Message for people who don’t want to be tied down to a guild (Josh is one of these kinds of players): They want to make the transition from anti-social to social play as painless as possible. PQs are intended to trick people like Josh into interacting with other people. Once they eliminate the barriers to social interaction, you’re left with only the positives.”
No your are not left with ‘only the positives’. You still have to deal with a preponderance of asshats in groups. The very reason most people hate grouping.
I love the way the marketing people are trying to spin forced grouping into a good things.
The fact that they view solo people as being anti-social shows that mythic learned ZERO from wow. That they view members of their playerbase as stupid people who have to be ‘tricked’ speaks volumes about their philosophy.
Wow got to 10 million subscribers by making an accessible game that you could solo through 100% and then do some of the most hard core raiding found in a MMO. You can say what you want about it being in ‘easy mode’. But I don’t remember Blizzard being so condescending to its players.
I really have to wonder how well this game will do. Yeah, Daoc people will love it. It looks like Dark Age but with lots more good stuff.
It sounds like the hardcore pvpers, min/maxers and uber-guilds will love it. And that’s fine.
They deserve a game for them. Make it the best RvR game for them.
But then cut out this marketing BS. Your not going to wind over the PvE crowd or the casual player by insulting them. By telling them that their playstyle isn’t valid and they have to change it.
By Isanox on Jul 2, 2008
Thanks for your comment Isanox!
To be fair, what I wrote is only a semi-quote from what he said in the podcast. I really suggest giving it a listen to put it more into context.
I don’t think they look down their noses at “anti-social” players at all and I’m one of them. I think they are just trying to reach out to people who prefer going it solo because they don’t want to deal with hassle of groups/guilds by putting us in situations where we see that social play isn’t as bad as our preconceptions.
And yeah, you could play WoW completely solo… up until level 70. Once you hit that wall, you really had to join the community to participate in any sort of decent PvE/PvP. Josh said he was the kind of player that would skip quests completely if he needed a group to do them (me too). Once you hit level 70 in WoW there’s nothing for you to do solo unless you’re into crafting and playing the economy.
Playing solo in WoW PvP would definitely limit your potential and I imagine it will in WAR too.
Ultimately, you’ll probably have a better experience with a tight-knit community of like-minded people to play with. MMOs (WoW) are designed for groups and RPGs (Oblivion) are designed for solo. That’s just the way it is.
By Snafzg on Jul 2, 2008
Thanks Snaf, you’ve now given me a mission in the game.
I will personally pulverize every Witch Hunter I see in the name of Chrono Chaos! WAAAAGH!
By Vagrant on Jul 2, 2008
Thanks for your well written response Snafzg.
I agree, in pvp if you are solo, expect to die, alot. And that’s the way it should be.
I disagree that MMO’s have to be designed for groups. Jack Emmert said it best http://www.champions-online.com/dev_blog/soloing_in_champions_online
I am a big proponent of choice. I honestly believe that every zone in a game can have a version for solo, group and raid. (With corresponding loot and xp of course)
Wouldn’t it be great if you have a large guild and can turn that “Kill 10 bears quest” into an epic fight.
When I think of solo, I see it as playing in a framework with other people, just not necessarily teaming with other people. Grouping, sure with friends, but only when I want to. The same goes for raiding. Don’t get me wrong I don’t want to ruin the RvR game. What I am saying is that they should have a ton of solo, pve content. If they don’t want to or can’t then fine, just say so.
This brings me to my second point, honesty in marketing. I have a ton of respect for the Shadowbane developers when they said, “If you don’t like pvp, don’t play our game.” Mythic’s whole “trick them” them just smacks of that used car salesman marketing that MMO companies seem to do way too much of.
By Isanox on Jul 2, 2008
Interesting thing to me is… Why play an MMORPG for solo play? Aren’t there enough console games, PC games out there to keep you occupied? Why whine distastefully at MMO devs for creating a game that is DESIGNED for people to gather together and play, hence the term, MMO.
I can understand one wanting to play solo, but please… don’t rant and rave about an MMO being “poorly done” because it doesn’t cater to you solo grinders. You guys have more than enough games “like that” at your disposal.
~~Haxsys
By Haxsys on Jul 6, 2008
People are looking way to far into that comment of “tricking them”.
I’ve seen the public quests (yes i’ve played in beta) and seen first hand how much the PQ’s do infact allow for solo play. What would being in a guild add to that? A chat room. There are going to be perks to being in a guild sure. Standards and the like. However once you play you’ll realize that they HAVE in fact thought of the solo players and not left them out as WoW has.
If anyone wished to refute the WoW statement…. Try hitting level 70 and see how far you get solo….
WoW got to 10 Million subscribers by releasing the game when the market was, admittedly, lacking on the MMO front. EQ was dying and any other MMO was flopping. Blizzard came out with strong marketing and a reputation for first rate RTS games (which i still personally believe is top notch for RTS’s). The game wasn’t finished when it released (even blizz dev’s admit this) and was lacking in many fields that blizz later tried to fix, and failed.
Warhammer is now coming out as WoW is starting to stale. The massive plus i’ve seen in this is that there has been no rush to release WAR. They are taking their time, making sure it’s done right, and in the end i think it’s going to be an awesome mmo.
Now just hurry and open up the open beta and quick start so i can cancel my WoW account lol.
By Seph on Jul 7, 2008