I think the way LoTRo handles it is about right. Gear is useful, you need good gear. However you can get very good gear doing whatever you want. PvP, raiding, crafting, epic quests. Your choice.

Also, the difference in performance between the very best gear in the game and gear that anyone can easily get is only around 5%. Some players will go after that last little bit and spend hundreds of hours doing it. However, you don’t have to to be competitive.

DAoC also seemed to strike a good balance, at least pre TOA/ on classic servers. You spend a bit of time gearing up, but for the most part you want to jump in to pvP and start earning ranks.

In general, don’t make me do something I don’t like so that I can excel at something I do like, and I’m fine. Don’t make me raid so that I can compete at PvP or get the best crafting recipes. Don’t make me craft or PvP before I can raid, for that matter. Let me do what I want to and still make progress. Seems like common sense really.

By Yeebo on Jun 18, 2008

Gear should influence your skill not substitute or overcome it.

As an example, think of two combatants, one a neophyte with a deadly magical sword and magical armor and the other a skilled veteran with a regular sword and armor. During the battle, the magical armor aids the neophyte and lets him defend most of the attacks from the veteran. However, the neophyte barely knows how to use a sword so even though it has a vorpal blade, he can’t even barely hit the veteran to do any severe damage.

In return though, the veteran is highly skilled and knows how to wield both his sword and be agile with his armor. Therefore he easily avoids most of the neophytes futile attacks quite easily. With regards to his attacks, even though the magical armor reduces the ferocity of his blows, he still wounds the neophyte far more than he is wounded in return.

At the end of the battle, the neophyte falls dead with a series of minor wounds cumulatively killing, while the veterans survives with one or two fairly deep wounds.

As for can this happen in an MMO like WoW, ya totally, but not to such a great extreme. For example, I’ve seen people with green and blue gear do amazing things with it, while someone with uber purple gear can barely hold their own. The gear isn’t the end all and be all. It’s what you do with the gear that matters and that’s where skill and knowledge comes into play.

And if anything this is why Warhammer has the 40 ranks to it, as it is hoped that by the time you reach the 40th rank, you’ll be effectively experienced and skilled in the full complexities of RVR combat. If you’re not, say due to someone passing you their 40th ranked character, you’ll probably suck at the Tier 4 gameplay because you’ll definitely be able to output the damage but still not effectively enough compared to others around you.

By Malavar on Jun 18, 2008

Just had an interesting thought. The saying “Form follows function” pretty much relates to this as well. For example, you could say “Gear follows skill”. So skill is the fundamental component but gear should still be intricately linked to it.

By Malavar on Jun 18, 2008

I think skill has to stay the most important, as long as my gear looks cool/pretty, I’m happy.

By arbitrary on Jun 18, 2008

Tricky subject, but I’m really glad you guys chose to write about it. Here’s my take. Skill, teamwork, and knowledge of game mechanics should be the #1 factor in deciding victory.

Items and gear should be about customization of your character (not only how it looks, but how it plays). Your gear should reflect your play style, maybe you’re a caster, and you feel too squishy. Use your gear to make you little tougher, but at the expense of damage. Really hate casters? Equip a cloak that gives magic resistance at the cost of physical mitigation.

Doing item customization in this way also helps you fill a certain niche in your team’s structure, or if you like to fly solo, you can customize your gear for that sort of game-play as well!

By Stormcrow on Jun 19, 2008

I agree with Stormcrow. The system he describes makes sense, equip stuff fitting to your plan/needs.

Nobody likes imba-gear, but we all strive to get the best gear possible, this is only natural. Still, this power creep must be kept in check, it can ruin a game. Guild Wars shows how you can make an interesting game without need for farming for gear and stuff like that. But it really lacks in the customization department, as the differences between all the different bonuses offered by the many inscriptions or inherent bonuses are tiny, and most are actually totally useless most of the time.

Gear should enhance the ability of the player to pursue his plan, not give him a serious general edge over the environment or other players. This would be rather boring quickly.

By Longasc on Jun 19, 2008

@Yeebo: I agree almost completely. However, there has to be some cross over between the favorite end game past time. Particularly the PvPers having to do at least some PvE initially. However, I agree. I don’t want to raid to get PvP oriented gear. Thats absurd. Unless I’m raiding an opponents capital city or keep That is acceptable.

@Malavar: Nice example, however, it doesn’t really fit into the MMO concept. A max level character is SUPPOSE to be a veteran. Both of the max level characters are SUPPOSE to be same in terms of character abilities/skill. Even the examples of combat concepts used in your example are generally passively taken care of by the game engine. Your example sounds more like a level 55 with awesome gear going at it with a level 60 with mediocre gear. Either way it does serve to illustrate a damn good point. There is a difference between PLAYER skill and CHARACTER skill. Character dodge and player dodging are two different things. A character dodges by a game engine algorithm. A player dodges by the circle strafe of doom

The rest of your post I agree with completely. The part about WoWs gear was exactly one of the points of this article. The gear problem really wasn’t that horribly bad… except if you met a person that was equally skilled as you with a big difference in gear as well. Two equally geared opponents one with Season 1 gear and the other with season 3 gear… the season 3 man will win every time. Now take away the skill equality and make the better geared person better skilled then you. It is now a rape

Good addition. Thank you.

@Stormcrow: Once again I agree. However, I’d like you to elaborate more on this customization concept. Almost every game has the ability to do this as long as their gear pool is large enough. In wow you could do this at various states of the game as well as some others. If all you want is customization of gear, how do you see gear progression working? What is the difference between a max level common helmet and a max level epic helmet in terms of stats? What is the difference between a level 50 helmet and a level 60 helmet?

@Longasc: For me Guild Wars losts its appeal immediately I don’t enjoy a game that really has no end game other then playing Counterstrike style matches. I enjoy having something to do between matches as well However, thats just my opinion.

Nice comments everyone. Lets hear some more.

By Bo on Jun 19, 2008

The key to avoiding mudflation is to keep the easily attainable gear about 10% below the best available. Give hardcore players a 10% gear advantage to keep that dangling carrot in the game. By making the 10% advantage available only to the elite, you give them the status symbol and performance advantage they crave.

Next you give the semi-casual players or the not-quite-elite a set of 5% armor so that they also have something to strive for. This means that they’re still better than the easily attainable gear (to give them the elite feeling) but aren’t quite as uber as the truly hardcore and elite players.

Finally, you make baseline gear available that keeps even brand-new players within 10% of the most hardcore and elite. By doing this, you permit your game to constantly progress with more powerful sets of gear while still maintaining control over how much of a difference the gear makes. This blog makes a great point that we all want gear to have an impact, but not one that completely overshadows skill.

To put this in a practical example, when you introduce a new set of armor to the game that offers a 5% performace advantage over the previous greatest set, the old elite set (or an equivalent) should be attainable by the middle group and the old middle armor will now be vendor purchased or otherwise easily attainable. This means anyone looking for a performance above baseline has to “work” for it again. It also means the old elite already start at the new middle ground, still giving them a head start getting the latest uber-set.

By Koroh on Jun 19, 2008

@Koroh: Good concept. However, in terms of PvE how do you keep from trivializing the starting Raid content if you intend to keep the 10% distance?

Theoretically, the middle people should be getting close to obtaining the highest gear by the time the highest people are getting close to obtaining the new best gear anyway. Thats the concept anyway. You can slowly see this trend in some games as the low end raid contend ends up becoming PUGable.

Would it detract from the game if they turned previous “outdated” raid content into group scale instances? For example, when WoW gets too far along turn Kara in a 1 group instance so that the casual or low end gamers have a chance of catching up atleast a little bit?

or should you ignore the need for the previous content all together and go the route they took for PvP gear. Put it on a vender (Although this isn’t the same. Once Season 1 was over there was no Season 1 left around to test the new PvPers. There is a Kara still to test new Raiders.)

________________________________

These comments are probably more fun then me writing the article.

By Bo on Jun 19, 2008

Let me try to simply this because I think that most of the comments so far by people are pretty much on track and quite similar.

For example, I said gear influences skill which means both positively and negatively. So like Stormcrow said, if I choose heavy armor there should be some negative drawback to it (i.e. heavier, so move slower, less agile), at the same time the positive effect is that I can sustain damage much more easily (so it’s both a positive and negative influence). And even as Longasc said, this ties in directly with my “plan” of how I choose to play my character (i.e. play style).

Also games like WoW pretty much work this way already. Just think of the varying stats on gear in the game. I can change my gear which in turn varies my stats up/down (as well as unique abilities tied to the gear), thus causing me to vary my play style to take advantage of those modified stats. I mean two of my friends, one a Warlock and the other a Priest, do this all the time when they get new gear from raid drops.

So all in all, on a simplified level, I think we’re pretty much in agreement. But let me take it a step further to fully clarify things.

If I’m fighting someone who is the same class and level as me, but he has superior gear, while I’ve got superior skill in knowing how to fully utilize the gear/abilities I have, who would win? It would be close but I’d say I would win. And again, just like I mentioned in my WoW example in my previous comment, I’ve seen this very thing happen.

In effect, knowing what to do with the gear you have is more important than just getting better gear. This is something we constantly reiterate to those rising within our guild ranks time and time again in WoW. And it is often why you’ll see someone with mediocre gear out DPSing someone with uber gear in a raid, because that person knows how to make the most of their gear.

By Malavar on Jun 19, 2008

Bo, I agree that my idea trivializes the “entry” raid gear, but that seems to be what these games are doing anyhow. Who runs MC or BWL anymore? At least by letting new raiders jump in at the 0% level, you make them viable for something like world PvP. Especially in a game like WAR where end-game PvE isn’t the main focus, I don’t think making old PvE dungeons obsolete over long periods of time is a bad thing. Besides, there’s nothing to say you can’t increase the difficulty of the creatures inside and have them randomly give out pieces of the new gear! Imagine if newer and tougher denizens took over MC and you could run it again, with new tricks and surprises?

By Koroh on Jun 19, 2008

The main problem with gear vs. skill is that there’s no defining either one.

What’s skill? The ability to mash the buttons the fastest? To best prepare for your battles with intelligent combos? A bit of both? Nevertheless, it would be somewhat ratable if ALL factors are taken in consideration. There is also to consider that MMO’s are the least perfect of perhaps all game genres. They have flaws, glitches, exploits. The “cookies cutter” phenomenon manifests ever so often: it is when game mechanics are stretched to the maximum, to near-abuse. Refraining from using certain abilities or ability combination are sometimes requested from other players to even the odds. I’d take this as a sort of code of online chivalry.

And gear? Gear, in my personal opinion is simply a vastly popular mechanic that consists mainly of a scale of computer-vs-player. It’s a way to give an illusion of progression and I have never seen a game where it was perfectly implemented.

These things considered, I believe gear should stay in the PvE realm, while skill belongs more to the PvP ensemble. Depending on the game, however, this can change. Certain PvE oriented games (mostly singleplayer) do have a skill component, but they are fundamentally flawed in that they do not have a multiplayer.

Many argue that in MMO’s, time spent equals worthiness to carry said equipment. However, considering that MMO’s are largely based on social activity, players who are already part of a group of friends who later create a guild have a distinct advantage. All depending on server progression, guild progression, etc. a player that spends time to get equipment guildless will likely spend serveral hundred fruitless hours compared to relatively few to the guilded, especially the favored amongst the guilds. Since PvE requires a relatively less acute sense of timing, strategy, etc. games that make gear into the deciding factor utterly ruin the game experience for skilled players if they cannot commit.

However, in games that are almost exclusively designed for PvP, like WAR, gear will obviously serve the purpose of rewarding PvP effort specifically. In this I agree on with Mythic as long as the gear gap is not as monstruous as Blizzard has made. Subtle upgrades are needed to reward PvP, but not so much that the skill factor is completely removed from the equasion.

By Pyronox on Jun 24, 2008

The biggest problem gear runs into is the need to participate in some form of in game activity that you either can’t due to lack of time or other such concerns (raiding), or don’t wish to do because it isn’t your cup of tea (Arenas), simply in order to keep pace with everyone else.

Eliminate this problem, and most people’s concerns about gear evaporate because it will be easy for everyone to keep pace.

By Neri on Jul 1, 2008

Ok, I’m new here, but I have a suggestion about Stormcrow’s point on modifiable armor. A really easy way to do this would be to assing every piece of gear a point value. Obviously, epic items would have a higher point value than normal items. This point value can be translated into bonuses distributed by the player. Example…an epic helm drops with a point value of 150. Noorgaard chooses to put the maximum points allowable into strength to get harder hits. (Lets say 50 is max, just to make it easy) He also wants more hitpoints, so he puts 50 points into stamina. That leaves him 50 points to fully customize his personal helm. Say he wants to add to his resistances, so 25 shadow and 25 magic. You now have a fully customizable helmet made for that character. The freedom to put the points where you want would make it so that your gear fit your playing style and reflected your skill level.

I know that Blizz does this after a fashion with item levels. But the fact that Blizz distributes the points instead of the character takes part of the skill level away.

What do you think?

By Red on Jul 2, 2008

My thoughts are that everyone who complains of the imbalance of gear and skill in MMO’s really does not understand because they are casual players who cant reach that top gear. Gear comes with skill, those top players who reach that gear are skilled. Yes they may be able to not even try to beat you and win, but if say he switched down to crap gear like yours he would still blow you out of the water.
A good example of this is WoW. Say you play a S1 rogue vs a S3 rogue. Obviously it is much harder to get S3…. meaning he had the skill to make the full set unlike you who could not hold your own in arena. He understands pvp much more than you and if he put on his S1 would tear you apart either way.

By Tlepp on Aug 11, 2008